Curse

Angel Of Balthazar · May 17, 2009, 07:28 AM // 07:28

hi, you can see the build here:
-> http://gwshack.us/10cae

what do you think?

HollaBigj · May 17, 2009, 09:23 AM // 09:23

I would say this will works, but with a earthshaker warrior loaded with hammer bash skill that would ruins the ardenaline system. You need to keep earthshaker up constantly that would put hindrance on an opponent team, because that would screw their tempo and eles would score kill when they're knocked down constantly due to AoE spells. I recommend you to replace hammer bash to something else. "You will die!" skill would helps, but not strongly encourage to use that skill. For great justice! would benefits a earthshaker warrior pretty good to keep ardenaline up constantly, but it has longer recharge time. The option is up to you to decide.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · May 17, 2009, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by HollaBigj

I would say this will works, but with a earthshaker warrior loaded with hammer bash skill that would ruins the ardenaline system. You need to keep earthshaker up constantly that would put hindrance on an opponent team, because that would screw their tempo and eles would score kill when they're knocked down constantly due to AoE spells. I recommend you to replace hammer bash to something else. "You will die!" skill would helps, but not strongly encourage to use that skill. For great justice! would benefits a earthshaker warrior pretty good to keep ardenaline up constantly, but it has longer recharge time. The option is up to you to decide.

You obviously don't know how to play a hammer warrior then. Hammer bash is fine, keep it.

The only major issue I can see having the Song/Make Haste on the ranger, basically from what I can see the ranger is the only source of interupts you'll have in the build, so if he's off make hasting your runner, you'll have no one to interupt snares on your own team making it very difficult, if not impossible to run relics.

bitchbar player · May 17, 2009, 01:37 PM // 13:37

and also he wont be able to interupt ghostlies or other songs while songing himself

Angel Of Balthazar · May 17, 2009, 02:45 PM // 14:45

kk, so r/n debuffs + e/p make haste and w/p song.

what do u think of brutal weapon?

Alleji · May 17, 2009, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Ranger needs 14 expertise.

Ele could easily put 8 or even 10 in resto. (Energy storage is a terrible attribute and if you're not running linked skills, its only function is to hit the 15e breakpoint on GoLE. Anyone who says otherwise is bad.)

Doesn't stoning do more damage than ebon hawk?

I feel sorry for whoever has to play that epic bitchbar of a rit.

Nadia Roark · May 17, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

(Energy storage is a terrible attribute and if you're not running linked skills, its only function is to hit the 15e breakpoint on GoLE. Anyone who says otherwise is bad.)

I sometimes find myself wondering why more people don't realize this.

Killed u man · May 17, 2009, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

I sometimes find myself wondering why more people don't realize this.

Because it's not true.

Energy storage gives eles the stamina needed in HA to last the match. And with stamina here, I simply mean a large "stamina pool".

HA matches usually don't last longer than 4 minutes, so with a mana pool of around 70, these eles can spam rodgorts on recharge, only to run out of energy when the match is over.

Give them any more energy, and then can spam longer (IF the match lasted longer), give them any less, and they'll burn out way before the match ends. (Cuz when they run out, so does your pressure)

Personally, I'll settle with 8-9 resto, but I can see what ppl would want to go with more.

Some builds, Mind blast e.g., require alot of enegry storage aswell...

Phe Belladona · May 17, 2009, 08:15 PM // 20:15

take insp enchant on rt, steal enemies channeling, helps you and debilitates them

Nadia Roark · May 17, 2009, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Because it's not true.

lolz

Quote:

Energy storage gives eles the stamina needed in HA to last the match. And with stamina here, I simply mean a large "stamina pool".

HA matches usually don't last longer than 4 minutes, so with a mana pool of around 70, these eles can spam rodgorts on recharge, only to run out of energy when the match is over.

And if the enemy monks can withstand ele pressure (e.g. "If they're smart enough to shield swap and kite") your eles lose just about all functionality after the 3 or 4 minute mark. You're basically saying "Eles with high energy storage are great against monks who don't know what they're doing."

News flash: they're already F*cked if their monks don't know what they're doing. Arguing that Energy storage is good under those circumstances is like saying "Shooting the ball is great when every single defender blows their block." It might win you matches and earn you fame, but that doesn't mean it's good against a team that has its head outside of its rectum. If you're just farming the first 2 or 3 maps that's all well and good, but if you want anything more than that you're going to have to take a harder look at your skills and attributes.

Quote:

Give them any more energy, and then can spam longer (IF the match lasted longer), give them any less, and they'll burn out way before the match ends. (Cuz when they run out, so does your pressure)

Its been my experience that if a monk (or team of monks, depending on who gets shut down and who doesn't) can withstand the first 30-40 seconds of ele pressure, they're going to be fine for the rest of the match, provided they're as good at protecting themselves (i.e. shield swapping, kiting, etc) as they are at protecting the rest of the party.

It's also worth considering that most eles are going to be taking 20/20 sets (or something close), which means they burn through their energy faster since most eles cast their spells whenever they're recharged. The smarter ones will save big damage skills like Rodgort's for spikes (or AoE skills in KD based teams), but as a general rule, most of the skills they're carrying will be cast ASAP.

This means that ele pressure will start to break down around the 3-4 minute mark, as you alluded to in your post. This in turn means that any match that lasts longer than this is likely to favor the other team anyway; which makes energy storage a silly attribute to spec in considering those circumstances. If your team is built around winning in the first couple of minutes that's okay, but if you're after any kind of sustained pressure, prudence > energy storage.

Phe Belladona · May 18, 2009, 12:22 AM // 00:22

actually estorage is what allows for strong rodgort pushes, 25energy skills couldnt be chained without it. you can get by on having 10 for fire bars and less for earth and air.

Nadia Roark · May 18, 2009, 01:10 AM // 01:10

You shouldn't rely on "rodgort pushes" for your damage. If you are, your frontline isn't doing their job.

Sun Fired Blank · May 18, 2009, 01:51 AM // 01:51

I advise E/Rt (Ether Prism) or Rt/P (Offering of Spirit + Make Haste). Don't be afraid of not having specialized hex removal. You can simply push through most hexways with extra party healing. Also, I'd be loathe to have so many people channel-tanking, and your expel bar is going to be really hard on energy even with channeling.

360° · May 18, 2009, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

(Energy storage is a terrible attribute and if you're not running linked skills, its only function is to hit the 15e breakpoint on GoLE. Anyone who says otherwise is bad.)

And that's why I practically never run energy storage rune. If I don't need it to get 15e GoLE, I much rather take the extra 10 HP.

Lux Aeterna · May 18, 2009, 06:07 AM // 06:07

The double wars are fine, but lose the major mastery runes, it's 2 pts of damage with semi significant HP loss.

Ranger needs some changes... Magebane shot is better than punishing shot, any of the other common ranger elites would work well too. Needs apply poison.

Don't really see the point of the earth ele + rit/mes. A regular LC/ward necro would probably be more effective than the earth ele, the support rit seems better but there are probably more efficient options (you could include a kappa mesmer or mind shock/b flash E/N for example).

Eddie Frenzy Spam · May 18, 2009, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

You shouldn't rely on "rodgort pushes" for your damage. If you are, your frontline isn't doing their job.

What? So basically what you're saying is your frontline should be able to push through spikes without any support? I think you're digging yourself a hole here....

Nadia Roark · May 19, 2009, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

What? So basically what you're saying is your frontline should be able to push through spikes without any support? I think you're digging yourself a hole here....

Look up "Straw man" in the Dictionary of Logical Fallacies and it may well show this very exchange.

What I said was you shouldn't rely on "Rodgort Pushes" (whatever those are) for your damage; your frontline should be doing more damage than that to begin with. Big damage skills like Rodgort's should be used at key moments to add damage to an already dying target: they shouldn't be your primary source of pressure and therefore shouldn't require your ele to have a zillion points in energy storage.

Phe Belladona · May 19, 2009, 03:49 PM // 15:49

you made a big mistake fumbling from "estorage is bad attribute" to "you shouldnt rely on elemental damage for pressure"..

reasonable levels of estorage are important to 25energy spells and fire eles are pretty essential to every HA build except iway and rspike. rodgorts should be used as close to recharge as glyph, attune and energy cap allow(all these are linked to estorage btw - a glyph giving free spells enchances attunement into creating energy not just reducing cost) i hate these terrible fire eles who arent hitting death buttons on every ball or low target they see..

as i said before around 10 is acceptable for a fire ele and less for air or earth (earth you will want 15 energy break point on glyph tho) in my experience. also im wondering are you wanting 11 resto on your fire ele for a +1 second on warding from 8 or what? what else is an ele taking you want to spend the att points elsewhere?

oh btw warlock said im to shut up and listen to you cause "you're the best prot monk in the game" :P

Nadia Roark · May 19, 2009, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phe Belladona

you made a big mistake fumbling from "estorage is bad attribute" to "you shouldnt rely on elemental damage for pressure"..

Actually, that's like... my point. Because you shouldn't rely on elemental damage for sustained pressure, this makes estorage a mediocre attribute. I myself never said it was terrible per se, I was just agreeing with the general sentiment that it's not worth sinking an insane number of points into. Maybe I should've been a bit more explicit.

Quote:

reasonable levels of estorage are important to 25energy spells and fire eles are pretty essential to every HA build except iway and rspike. rodgorts should be used as close to recharge as glyph, attune and energy cap allow(all these are linked to estorage btw - a glyph giving free spells enchances attunement into creating energy not just reducing cost) i hate these terrible fire eles who arent hitting death buttons on every ball or low target they see..

as i said before around 10 is acceptable for a fire ele and less for air or earth (earth you will want 15 energy break point on glyph tho) in my experience. also im wondering are you wanting 11 resto on your fire ele for a +1 second on warding from 8 or what? what else is an ele taking you want to spend the att points elsewhere?

There's nothing wrong with using it to hit GoLE breakpoint; that's probably the best reason to sink points into estorage (unless, of course, you're running other estorage skills too). I cant say what's more worthwhile to spend those attribute points on since I don't usually play midline.

What I'm really trying to say here, I guess, is that a lot of people seem to use high estorage as a substitute for proper energy management and that's not wise. When I see things like 12 estorage, glyph, and attune on an ele's bar my eyes roll heavenward with such vigorous intensity that I fear my optic nerves may sever and send my eyes popping right out of their sockets. It's just bad.

Quote:

oh btw warlock said im to shut up and listen to you cause "you're the best prot monk in the game" :P

lol.. I'm never gonna live that one down, even though someone else said it

Damn you, Mirada!

Ciric · May 21, 2009, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Pretty sure you need energy storage in order to get off any 25 nrg skill and not have to sit around for 10 sec to cast your next skill. Eles burn threw their pools very quickly but also have alot of down time in between major stresses on energy so you need E.S. Also any Mind _____ ele or ele that deals with exhaustion needs E.S.

After 4 years you would think people would atleast understand the use of primary attributes.